A Biblical View of Racial Unity

And I have two very distinguished guests with me today. Bryan Carter, senior pastor at the Concord Church here in Dallas, and Jeff Warren, who's senior past at Park Cities Baptist Church. And they've got a wonderful story to tell us about the way in which their ministries work and have come together to a certain degree.

And so, I'm gonna start with you, Bryan. Tell us a little bit about – how did you get to be senior pastor at Concord Church? What's your background that prepared you for ministry?

And, Jeff, what's your pedigree? What's your story?

And then the Lord called us back to Park Cities, where I've been the senior pastor since September – what was that? – 2001, [sic] five years I've been there.

So, we started getting involved in a thing called Movement Day here in Greater Dallas –

And some are saying, "I don't talk about those kind of issues at my church."

Others are saying, "It's a regular part of my –"

And so, you've got all these dynamics in a room. And so, we have a few of these roundtables, just talking. And then, out of that, the Movement Day began to challenge us to say, "What would happen if you guys – why don't you all think about swapping pulpits?"

And so, we were – just prior to coming in this room, we were sharing some of the woes and challenges and, "Hey, what you been up to today?" So, we encourage each other. We had lunch a week ago. I mean we get together regularly.

But when we – when Ferguson went down, that was the thing that, for us, we said not so much, "What if," but, "When that happens in Dallas, are we ready for this? And is the faith community ready to rise up and to speak into it?" And we determined we can't do so if we don't know each other.

We then had another meeting down in really the southern sector, at a church there, and had – gosh, I don't know how many, 50 –

We had a Hispanic pastor and an Anglo pastor call us about nine months ago. Went out to eat, and their concern was basically the same. They lived in Mesquite, and they said, "You know, we've been looking at what's been going on around the country, and we've gotten to know one another, and we're encouraging –

And we're actually talking to the Police Department about what happens if this explodes, and how can we not respond, as some law enforcement have responded, that kind of thing, to keep this from – something like this from happening and blowing up our community. So, it's not an isolated conversation –

So, let's talk – you know, this area, to be honest, really scares some people for different reasons.

What – I guess my first question is what kind of efforts did you make, or did you make any efforts to kind of build some initial trust before you walked into all this sensitivity – the sensitive discussion?

But the initial thing for us was in regard to just pastor to pastor. He came and spoke during a Lenten season. I came – we came together for some city-wide prayer initiatives that we had. So, we really started to get to know each other, see each other publically, preaching and such. So, on a personal level, there was trust built.

And then I think, with the pastors – again, just to get 'em together to spend time together is how you build trust. Get to know each other.

And they'd say, "Yes, I was at this mall, and this is what happened."

And so, you're hearing these – just trying to understand. And in many cases, just ignorance So, what happens when you're pulled over? How do you feel?

And frankly, if we can't have 'em in the Church, where we've got so much in common, then where are we gonna have 'em?

So, what we did find, to answer your question, is I think there as a high motivation on the part of the pastors we –

And then not only that, but then just – I think, as he mentioned, I think there was a readiness that was in the room. I mean I just – I think when you saw the marches, when you saw Black Lives Matter, all these dynamics happening, and then you begin to present what is the Church's role in all of this, it just seemed as though genuinely there was a – now, there was some skepticism about what goals – does this really man anything? Will anything come of this?

But I think, at the same time, I don't think I realized just the differences that were in that room either. 'Cause not – like I said before, it's not just color: it's theologically; it's denominationally. You've got all these dynamics in the room – just how they view the Church.

And so – but it was worth it. You know, it was worth it, having those candid conversations to help us move forward and help us think more broadly about the Gospel.

So, regardless of how progressive things have become, I think often Anglo-Americans don't understand the dynamic – the challenges, the realities that we face every single day, that racism is something I can't – I can't get beyond it.

Your time's coming, by the way.

When they view us as an exception to the rule because we've had some level of success or categorize what they see on TV and say, "Look at those young men," then I think it hinders us from really having the relationships we ought to have or the reconciliation. 'Cause reconciliation can never happen without an appreciation in valuing the other person. And valuing another person means valuing your story, your history in terms of where you've come from.

And so, I think stepping in that space – and even asking questions, helping people to understand, all of that is crucial to be able to get to where we need to be.

So, in my position, I can say, "Listen, you don't know what it's like to grow up in a culture where you think people are questioning whether your life matters or not." That's the black experience, that perhaps the people are questioning whether my life matters. And most of us white people don't – we don't – we've never had that experience.

So, I took – for instance, one of the things we did with my staff, I took my ministerial staff to Selma, the movie. And it came out a year ago or so. And I remember sitting in – then we debriefed afterwards, talked about it, which I challenge ever pastor leader to do. I think for white people to see the story again, if we don't see it, if we don't learn from someone, like a friend like I have in Bryan and others, if we don't read a lot, you can watch.

And what I remember was they showed the scenes in Selma at night, when the riots were started or broken up – I mean the marches, I should say. Police coming in. And they were exactly the same pictures that we're seeing on the news presently at Ferguson and other places. I mean they look exactly like Ferguson.

And see, in the black mind, from generation to generation, or just a couple of generations, that's in – that's their story. That's not the white man's story. You know, that is in the thread and the DNA of a black person's experience.

And so, to step into that story, as Bryan said, is so important for white people to recognize that there's been a different story for the African-American. And I would say this, too, that it's been helpful for me to read.

You know, most white pastors don't realize that the letter from the Birmingham jail, Dr. King's letter was to me. It was to the white man who was deciding, "Let's don't get involved." To the moderate white who said, "I'm gonna stay out of this." And he's calling 'em out.

So, I would challenge all white pastors to read his letter. But back to your question, I think the thing that – you know, I have learned so much through this time because, again, as a white man, you know, I didn't grow up with this kind of oppression and kind of racism that many have experienced.

So, what would you say to – this is your chance.

But that would be the thing is to continue to be patient and humble and know that not everybody's informed. And then – so, the – so, they need to understand that there are those of us who are working, there are those who are for helping white folks come along in their understanding.

And at the same time, we feel like reconciliation is an important part of that, which means that partnerships with other churches and trying to find ways that we can do this work together is crucial, because sometimes, although we may have, particularly in Dallas – although southern Dallas may have – southern Dallas has some challenges, north Dallas may have greater resources. That's just the way our city is structured.

One of the great gifts has been, as we've come together, you might imagine – and this would be different for different churches of different sizes, but we've come together – our staff has come to know each other. My executive pastor has a best friend in his executive pastor now. Our communication guys, our worship teams have had to work together, and that, again, challenging. Because we're different in the ways of how we worship and come together.

So, that's been a great benefit. We've had our men who've come together. Our men have gone there a couple of times. Their men have come to us. We had a room full of 500 men – of our men and their men – talking about racial reconciliation as we spoke from the – a platform there, and then they spoke at tables.

We've had women who have had a book swap and have read books together and then shared together. We had a kid swap at one point. So, it's gone – and more and more we've sought to bring more pastors into the pulpit swap, which we're gonna do again next year.

The goal is to model for our churches what the Scriptures teach us about racial reconciliation, to help our churches understand that the matter of racial reconciliation is not gonna be accomplished by the schools or the government.

If the Church doesn't step into that space, it'll never happen. We'll continue to have the proliferation of negative events. So, the Church has to own that. So, that's what we're trying – we're trying to raise up our churches to understand, "That's your role on your work place, in your neighborhood, at the school. Understand that's your role: you're a reconciler."

And then from there, then I think – then you talk about, "Okay, what can we do in our churches together? Can we do a service project together? Is there a common need in the city we could serve together around?" It's about relationships, and it really is. So, I think just starting there.

And know that when you step into the relationship, that it may work; it may not. And that's okay. You know, it may click; it may not. And I think you gotta be open to that, because it doesn't always – when we were approaching the pulpit swaps, and we're trying to connect churches, you – this church with – I mean it's like matchmaking. I mean you're trying to figure out, "Is this guy gonna work with this –"

But one is – you know, you would hope – and guys have asked us, "Hey, how are we supposed to connect with another pastor?"

And we'd say, "Um, pick up the phone." You know?

Go to the next one. You know?

And some have said – I've heard this, and Bryan could speak to our staff and others, thinking, "How cool would it be to have an event where we come either together at one place, or into some – I don't know, some larger arena or a place where we could come together.

I knew a guy who could take me down, deep into the post, little guy that I am, and beat me to a drum. You know? But it was – but we got to know each other, and encourage one another and that kind of thing. And there are all kinds of possibilities for what can be –

So, our people were down in south Dallas, other places around Fair Park, southern sector. A lot of his folks were around. And other churches jumped in on that.

But just – and they're planning works around that about how there's national movements that are happening around this matter of racial reconciling. So, it's just important that every leader understands, "What does this look like for me, and how do I advance this work?"