Ministry in Restricted Contexts

Now, John McLaughlin and his wife Natalie, we haven't introduced you yet. I know John from a completely different context. So … And I couldn't find out online exactly what you're doing with BEE. You're this mystery person. So I'm looking for the mystery to be unveiled. What's your role in BEE? And then you and Natalie can talk about your involvement.

Okay. Well, that's the introductions. Let's talk a little bit about the nature and the ministry, David. Talk a little bit about what the goals of BEE are, and what you attempt to do, and the kind of ministers you're working with.

In other countries, the security actually has changed through the years. And in some of them it went from high security and very low profile to a relaxed environment where it became more and more open for practicing and doing what we do. And then it is now closing in again and shutting down. Some of these countries … and we can't really mention them because in some places it's no problem. In other places it can be a big problem for the work that we do. But many of the countries in Africa, or maybe on the other end of the spectrum, and that is more of a limited access. They're not necessarily on lock down, they're not necessarily threatening. But getting into those countries is not easy. And there, obtaining and having access to biblical education is extremely limited.

And so we are committed to multiplying servant leaders, and enabling that to happen for the global church, going wherever whenever we possibly can to make that happen.

Surprisingly, many of these students that we have have been to some kind of biblical training or education. But it has been so limited and so light and so shallow with regards to Scripture that when they begin to study Galatians or Romans or these other courses that we have with us, it's like this whole new world is opening up to them. And so our commitment is to really infuse a solid, theological, biblical understanding and respect for the word of God so that from them comes their preaching and their lifestyle and their marriages and so forth. So, the whole methodology that we have in approaching the theological education is very much a non-formal approach. It's not the classroom. It's really a mixture between discipling/mentoring and educating through interactive learning.

But at the same time, they are learning skills of facilitation. And in the interactive learning, and the approach that we have to instruction, they are deeply being challenged as to their own personal lives, their character development. It's gonna be very hard for the students to come through our process and not be challenged with the impact and the import of what the Scripture is actually saying to them personally. And this addresses what we feel is a huge deficit in many of the educational programs that some of these students have had before is it doesn't even touch their character, or perhaps even their ministry skills.

So we're really trying to slow down, allow for that transformation, and interacting with the material. And then we're gonna really navigate that time with some modeling on ourselves, but allowing them to step in and learn how to … we'd use the term, ride the bike with our specific facilitation, teaching methods that allow them to use their cultural context for application. And so just a beautiful time of sharing meals together, and we'll, some locations, you could all be staying in the same place. Some other locations we'll … it maybe just depends a little bit on how we're trying to navigate the location accessibility. So.

'Cause the idea isn't just to go in and train a group, or educate a group, it's really to equip a group to turn and train others, and do so on a multiplying basis. So almost like a pyramid of different generations that can be impacted.

So we have a group that's in one area that's … we've had 20 students started 10 years ago, and they've got over 7500 students. And so it's able to spread and meet the need, but also to keep a quality going that serves the need for the pastors and the leaders.

But it's really an adventure. To me it's one of the most exciting things I've done, because you really pull in people to participate. And some of them have served in the church in an incredible way. And they you're in the middle of this adventure, watching how God's using it on both sides, and providing in all kinds of ways.

It's interesting, because oftentimes the nationals have less of a sense of on alert than we do, because that's where they live. And so their guard is down. "Ah, no problem. We can do this." And we, in our training, are probably a little more skittish about some of the decisions that are being made. But finding a place to meet that is clandestine in some of those tight places. We have leased out a condominium, an apartment in one of the … lost in the labyrinth of high rise apartments. And we go there under cover of darkness, and we are locked in for the week. 15, 20 of us with one bathroom, and just sharing life together as we go through the training. That's just one example of some of the places that we go to. Other ones are much more open. They may even meet at some kind of a hotel and a nice structure environment where they have an open meeting to … room to meet in. And so, there's much less of a tension of looking at the door and wondering what's going to happen. So there's a variety of experiences as we send our staff out.

So let me turn my attention back to John and Natalie for a second and talk about, when you go in, what do you find are the things that you teach that maybe are the most challenging for people that you're ministering to? Are there a particular set of challenges, or does it vary depending on the location that you're in?

So we're working against some historical missions' efforts, some of the paternalism that's just in place that wasn't necessarily intentional on the front side. But what we're learning about missions and what that communicates to also colonialism, that's a little bit more of a tough subject. But really being sensitive to that. And then coming in with just a real clear message and understand what the gospel is. So our first two courses are gonna be Galatians and then predominantly we're gonna put and emphasis on Romans, also. So we're really trying to help establish a good foundation before we move into some other courses.

And so, the preaching context and what does it really mean to have some inductive study methods, preparing, even planning a sermon with a small outline. So we start with just small lesson planning, and then how does that later translate into maybe an outline for a sermon as it relates to, obviously, just an understanding transformation and application. So we're really trying to structure around, “Know, be, do,” through consistently through each of our curriculum pieces.

But when you're … it's just fascinating to me when you're trying to teach a bunch of women. Read the text. What does it say? What does that mean? That stuff's second nature to us, but … So that's one of the challenges I have observed in trying to help the women learn to be curious and ask questions, how to read it rightly. And then how do you challenge others in your culture to question. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's one of the things, the challenges that I've observed with the women overseas.

Larry, I have a question for you that Natalie's remarks triggered for me. And that is, how much … what's the education level of the various countries that you are interacting with, with the leaders? Sometimes I think we expect, maybe perhaps there's a difference in education based on gender, by the nature of things. But I also understand that in many contexts, the people who are leading churches also have, to some degree, a limited educational background in comparison to the West. What do you generally find is going on there?

We also have those who are pretty highly educated, and who are engaging this material maybe at a different level, and focusing on things that maybe they wouldn't have otherwise. In fact, it's interesting. Picking up on the question, what are some of the greatest challenges, I think that overcoming a law, rule based view of the faith is one of the biggest and the first things that we try to address, not by confronting it, but by studying the Book of Galatians, by studying the Book of Romans. And as students begin to understand the implications of grace, and what that means, and they stop thinking of themselves as simply gutting it out and being better and trying harder and cracking the whip as a church leader to get other people to try harder, and they start to discover grace, there is a fragrance and a motivation that comes that just changes the dynamic of the training.

And the training, remember, is interactive. And this is another challenge we have. In some countries, they just want the right answer. Give us the right answer. We can write it down in our notes. Give us the test and we'll give you the right answer back to you. And our whole approach is for them to wrestle with the questions and the issues. And then we guide them towards right answers. We don't just leave it in the opinion mode, but we move them towards conclusions that they can maybe own at a deeper level in their own hearts.

And the third thing I would add is the multiplication. It's not, when we’re done with the group, "Okay. Send us more people." No. It's now you are equipped to train others. And so that is a major part. We haven't talked about it much here, yet. Because a major part of what we do is to establish a movement in that field that is ongoing, so the multiplication continues on, the training continues on, but with the nationals, not with us.

So to get hold of us, BEE World, of course.

B-E-E-W-O-R-L-D dot org is an easy way. I'd give you my phone number, but … [Laughter]

And in the midst of doing that, grow internally with a mutual kind of support, I suspect that one of the things that happens is is that internal networks get built within these countries and among these people, where they can encourage one another in the midst of this pursuit between the times that you're with them. And that also encourages them in growth and ministry.

So I thank you for giving us your time, and wish you all all the best as you continue to minister globally with the truth of what the Gospel is.