Winning a Grammy for God

Milyce Pipkin: 

Welcome to The Table Podcast, where we get an opportunity to show God and culture and show the relevance of theology to everyday life. I'm Milyce Pipkin. I'm an associate with the Hendrick Center here on the campus of Dallas Theological Seminary. We're so glad you're joining us today because we have a really exciting podcast. We have the faith journey, the singing, the award-winning none other than Myron Butler joining us here for the podcast. 

Myron Butler: 

Thank you so much for having me. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Thank you for being here. Myron is a Grammy award-winning, Stellar award-winning. I could go on to all the other awards that he's won. 

Myron Butler: 

Thank you. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

With his beautiful, beautiful voice. 

Myron Butler: 

Thank you. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

His talents and gift of song, whether it's producing, whether it's writing, whether it's singing, whether it's playing. 

Myron Butler: 

I do everything. I'll sweep the floor. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I'm so, so grateful that you came, Myron, because you're very much a man in demand, not just like in gospel circles of having you do so many different things, but also in demand with just your time, the efforts and the talent for what you do. 

Myron Butler: 

Yes, ma'am. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And here at The Table Podcast, we wanted an opportunity to sit down with you and talk about a Grammy for God is our topic, because that's what you did. You won a Grammy for God and you won so many other awards. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

But there is a man behind all of this. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And I'm grateful to have the opportunity to sit at the table and talk about the man. 

Myron Butler: 

Thank you. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

The legend, Myron Butler. 

Myron Butler: 

Thank you so much for allowing me to come and share a bit of my testimony. I am just grateful to share. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Please do. 

Myron Butler: 

Yes, ma'am. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And we can start really anywhere. We can start from the beginning if you want. How all of this came to pass for you. 

Myron Butler: 

Oh, man. Well, so I'm originally from a small town in Florida. I'm not a native Texan, although I've been here enough to be considered one now. But at a very young age, I was drawn to music. And the interesting thing about that is that no one else in my family does music. There's not another singer- 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That is interesting. 

Myron Butler: 

There's not another musician, there's not another songwriter, a director, preacher. So I understood later that it was part of my purpose, but that music chose me. So literally as a child, like four and five years old, I would go to church every Sunday and pull up a chair next to the organ player and just gaze at the organ player. I was mesmerized by music. I didn't know what it was, and I would just watch. And so I started piano lessons when I was about nine years old for one year, and then probably from nine on, I would just be sitting and songs would come to me. I did not understand. It wasn't like I was like, "Lord, let me be a songwriter." No songs would come to me and I would literally just gather my cousins because back then your grandmother had the couch in the living room that had the plastic over it. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I know about those times. 

Myron Butler: 

Right? So I would get my cousins and I would sit them on the couch and teach them the songs that came to me. And so for me, at a very young age, I was drawn to music. As I matured in the knowledge of God and understanding things, I knew that it was part of my purpose to use the gift of music to draw people and win souls to Christ. 

Start nine there, my mother and I, we probably moved to Dallas when I was about 10 or 11. And so at that point went to middle school, elementary, and then I went to the arts school, our arts high school here in Dallas. We called it was Arts Magnet back then. Now it's Booker T. Washington High School for the Visual and Performing Arts, but was singing. And all throughout that I always played in church, always been a musician in church. But at that point, that was more the formal training that I got in high school and then had studied a year at Morehouse in Atlanta. And throughout all of that, I would write songs. And first song that I had recorded of mine was a song that was recorded by the DFW Mass Choir. And so that was when I was a junior in high school. So for me, it was a part of my beginning as a child, and it's been the common thread throughout my entire life. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Wow. You are blessed to have been called as a child with a gift like this. 

Myron Butler: 

Yes, ma'am. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And then to have pursued it all this time. 

Myron Butler: 

Yes, ma'am. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Tell us a little bit about… We will just go straight to the winning of the awards and the Grammy and that kind of thing. When did all of this come to pass and what was it all for? 

Myron Butler: 

Oh, so winning the Grammy was, so when I went to college at Morehouse for a year, then I came back and there was, before I left to go to college, I'd started a little community choir because it used to be prominent convention in gospel music called the Gospel Music Workshop of American. And so I wanted to submit some songs to that convention. So I created a community choir of my friends here in town. And so, we went on to record, do a little recording. So I go to Atlanta for a year and I come back and I rejoined that choir and it's morphed into another choir. And at that time, it's what we present day know as God's Property. 

And so at that point, I was the director of that choir, so I reassumed the director's role, and we would perform all throughout the city, multiple times throughout the weekend because we were just young kids and Kirk Franklin noticed us, all these kids, with all this energy and singing. And so, fast-forward, basically he wanted to do a record with us, and it was the God's Property record. And so the Grammy that we won the award for goes to the choir director of the choir. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Got you. 

Myron Butler: 

That would be me. And so, it happened at a very early age. You grow up in music as we were discussing earlier, that the Grammy Award is like the pinnacle award that you could hope to receive as a musician, as a singer, as an artist. And so, to be blessed with that experience at a very young agent, and to be very honest, one of the very first recordings that I was a part of, it's like, wow, it was mind-blowing. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I bet it was. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. And so, my mind always goes back to the award ceremony and just being physically present in the room with all the other artists that you admire and idolize, Stevie Wonder and all these. And so, it was proof positive that your gift will make room for you and bring you before great men. And so, it was humbling in that sense, but it was a tangible testament to the faithfulness of God. And not that the award in and of itself denotes God's faithfulness, but the desire, you want to share music and for it to be esteemed and received like that to the point that it receives an award was literally overwhelming at that point. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I bet it was. We talked about this a little bit before we got started with the podcast today, to put things into perspective, it's not every day that you meet a Grammy Award-winning recording artist. That just doesn't happen that often. You know what I mean? 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

So, even for people who find out, oh, Myron is a Grammy Award winner, it's like I know him. It's like knowing somebody who has a Super Bowl ring or you have something that not everybody's going to get. Can you put this into perspective for us? 

Myron Butler: 

Yeah. I think when you look at the fact that in the industry of music today, there are thousands upon tens of thousands of songs that are released daily. There's so many amazing gifted individuals. So you look at thousands upon thousands of songs and artists that are releasing music. And when you look at the list of those that actually win a Grammy, the list is drastically smaller. So it's not like there are thousands upon tens of thousands of people that actually win that. So it does speak to the fact that to be chosen, to be selected, to be honored in that way, just in relation to all of the music that's out there, it makes it even that much more astounding that God would see fit to bless me with that. 

And I'm like, okay, God. Because that's one thing that I'm grateful for is that my grandmother and my mother that raised me, when they raised me, they always raised me to live my life in a position and posture of humility. And so, when I won the Grammy, I realized that it didn't have to be me. I'm from this little small town in Florida, so there are thousands of other gifted individuals that can sing and write and do all those things, but God so fit to align it. And so for me, that just makes me all the more grateful and all the more humble. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And for me, it just continues. And hopefully for you, it's like you get an opportunity to see that when God calls you for a purpose, and you will fulfill that thing- 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

He's going to exalt you and you're living proof and testimony of that. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. And the thing that I love to highlight about that is that the exalting that God does or your gift making room for you and bringing you before men may not always mean a Grammy. But what it does mean is that whatever sphere or lane that God has called you to excel in or be successful in, that you submitting to the will of God and doing what he called you to do, that is what success looks like for you. And so, for me, when I would go and speak to other artists or individuals, you don't want to position it like the Grammy in and of itself means that I'm successful and you're not. You know what I'm saying? Because it's like if you're obedient to what God has called and predestined for you to do, you doing that- 

Milyce Pipkin: 

You're successful. 

Myron Butler: 

You are successful. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

You've already done it. 

Myron Butler: 

Exactly. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

But that if you've never heard it before, is the epitome of humility. That's what humility looks like. That's what it sounds like. 

Myron Butler: 

Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And then not only that, and I'm just going to say this and then I'll move away from it because this is not a guy who wants to be pridefully sitting here going, yes, I did do this. But before we move on from the Grammy, is to note that you also have won several Stellar Awards and other Dove Awards. You have been a busy man doing God's work about the music, but it has yielded you several awards. Tell us about it. 

Myron Butler: 

It has. So when I came back to Dallas, I eventually started a group of my own, Myron Butler and Levi. And man, that was like 2003 or '04 that we released our first record, and it was entitled Set Me Free, and that God just saw fit to bless us again. On that one, we probably won four or five Stellar Awards just off that one release. And throughout all of the releases that God has allowed me to, the music industry has saw fit to celebrate them in that way. And God has allowed that. 

So, it's about maybe nine or 10 Stellars and three Dove Awards from working with artists like Tamela Mann and Smokie Norful because that's me putting on all the hats. So the singer hat, the artist hat, the producer hat, all of those. And that's one thing that I'm also grateful to the Lord, is that I realize that there are many gifts that he's given me. And so, I realized that he didn't give me those gifts to be celebrated, but to come alongside other artists and ministers, support them further their message and ultimately, build the kingdom of God. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Praise the Lord. 

Myron Butler: 

Yes, ma'am. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I'm thankful to the Lord for knowing you, because we get an opportunity to see through the eyes of someone who has been successful to the point of winning awards and that sort of thing. But we get to hear your story. 

Myron Butler: 

Yes, ma'am. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And we realize that it's this heart of God. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

David was a man after own- 

Myron Butler: 

Come on. After God's own heart. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

After God's own heart and he was a musician. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And so how much do you see yourself likened to a David? 

Myron Butler: 

Yeah. I think the thing that I see in myself in David is because I don't come… As I explained before, I don't come from a long line of singers and musicians because if I did, then typically, the unspoken, is I would be expected to and maybe chosen or desire to. But David, he wasn't chosen. He wasn't the preferred one, but God still saw fit. God still was like, no, have you considered? 

And so for me, that's what I saw because growing up, I was in a position oftentimes where I wasn't the preferred one, where I wasn't the desired or the one thought to be. And so at that point, I was never in a place of wanting to position myself so that I could be. But it's just like if I'm in the forefront or if I'm on the backside of the desert, wherever I am, I want to be doing what God called me. I can vividly remember playing for the Sunshine. I'm going to date myself. What is a Sunshine band? The Sunshine band, we had Sunday school and I played for Sunday school. I played for the youth or Sunshine band because for me, it was all about, I just loved music. And so for me, that is what I would see, like the correlations between David and myself. 

But also that I don't want anyone to think for a moment that being successful or winning the awards means that you've been perfect. Many are my mistakes and faults. And in that, what I've always tried to carry and always tried to walk before the Lord is with a contrite heart, to be broken before the Lord. So for me, I think those would be the correlations. And that's what I believe God is desiring out of all of us, a brokenness before him. To not be prideful, to not boast and think that, oh, I earned this, or I deserve this. Because that's where that entitlement and ultimately, pride comes in. And we know that pride comes before… 

Milyce Pipkin: 

The fall. 

Myron Butler: 

The fall. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And the ultimate one who fell. 

Myron Butler: 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Well, and I hear a lot of people say that Satan was the great musician in heaven… There's nothing biblical really to say that, but that's what goes along with him and what he did. So with that in mind and in mind, what you were just talking about, there can be challenges and I'm sure that you have met your share of them, care to share what some of those have been for you? 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. Yeah, I think to be very candid, I'll give you all the condensed version because one of my life wounds is to have grown up without a father. And so, it was only my mother that raised me, and I've always had the desire to know him. And speaking about testimony, of course, I sang with Kirk Franklin for many, many years, and I remember we were on the New Nation tour and we were going close to the town where I was born in Florida, and I got a chance to meet him. And I can vividly remember, I'd taken a picture of me holding the Grammy with him. And what growing up without a father caused me to do and this is very transparent, is it caused me at different points in my life to manipulate the gift that God had given me in order to earn the acceptance that I had never received from my father. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I think we've all done that when we grow up without a father. 

Myron Butler: 

But it was the realization because you go, and you think you're singing before crowds and you're doing the work of God, but when I really peel back the layers, I'm like, I'm using my giftedness to get the yes that I never got. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Yes. 

Myron Butler: 

And so for me, that was one of the things that I had to really check myself, because at that point, I don't want to ever manipulate or contort or distort the gift that God has given me for any other reason, but to bring glory to his name. Now, you understand people are still being blessed, but in my heart, it was the motive. At times it was the motivation because it was the yearning for that. So you never want to fall into this performative area because at that point then, I think that takes away or that causes you to rely on your own giftedness and you're not relying on the strength, the power of God. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

So when did that pivot happen for you? When did you figure that? And I'm going to come back to some of your other challenges, but when did you realize you were doing that? Because for me personally, that probably didn't come until much later in life that I realized I'm trying to get that father's acceptance, when he hadn't paid me any attention, I need his acceptance. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. To be very honest, Milyce, it probably was at my father's funeral. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I think that's when it happened for me. And I just lost my father a few years ago. 

Myron Butler: 

It wasn't tens of years ago for me. And it was at that because I sat there and with all of the hurt, with all of the anguish, with all of the… Because before that, there's another part of my testimony, before he passed, Holy Spirit had just pricked my heart. For some reason, I had going to do a New Year's Eve ministry for a church, and I was speaking with the pastor, and in the midst of the conversation, the Holy Spirit dropped in my spirit, find your father. And I had no idea why. I'm like, wait, no, no. What is this? And I called back home, I found him. And at that point, he was in hospice in a small town about an hour away from Fort Lauderdale. And I had another ministry assignment coming up in Fort Lauderdale. And so I said, "Okay, God. All right, I see." 

And so got the car in the rental car, drove there and sat by his bed. He was not conscious. But in that moment, I cried. I asked for forgiveness because I realized all these years I've been carrying around bitterness because I felt like he intentionally did not choose me. And so, it was a very broken point in my life and I had to contend with the things that I had compartmentalized and explained away. And so, it was a very real moment for me, but I am grateful to the Lord in that moment that I was open to the brokenness or to the level of brokenness that the Lord was calling me to, and that I did not kick against it and be like, no, no, no, he didn't… And at that moment it was where true healing happened for me. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Praise the Lord. 

Myron Butler: 

And so that was just one of those. So, it wasn't as a child, it was at my very, very grown age that I realized that I had been misusing the gift that God had given me. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That's a very, very, very strong message. I hope that someone listening really picked up on this because too often we do everything you just said, and it is not to the glory of God. And we may be even blocking some blessings. 

Myron Butler: 

Come on, come on. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

But we We don't know. We don't know until we have these moments in life- 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That come to us and then we realize we do have a heavenly Father, and he's the one we need to be pleasing and not worry, people pleasing the father that, like you said, may have abandoned us. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Tell us a little bit more about some of your other challenges you may want to share. 

Myron Butler: 

Oh, yeah. So my other challenge would've been being able… Because I always, in growing up with just my mom, so there was never a picture of what it looked like to be in ministry and to not allow your family to be the victim of ministry because- 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Interesting. Tell us more. 

Myron Butler: 

My wife and I have been married for 21 years. We've got three- 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Praise the Lord. 

Myron Butler: 

Yes, amen. We've got three beautiful children. And so, when we first got married, I was on tour and traveling at that time. And so what happens is you don't know because juggling is not a carnal word, but maybe not the right word, but you're trying… You're in your early 20s, you just got married. We had our first child early on in our marriage. And so, being the type of husband and father and leader that I needed to be in those moments and not desiring the platform or the stage more so than I'm desiring to lead and be present with my family. And so, there have been times where I've had to let my wife know, hey, if I ever lose sight, and I have, pull this coat tail. Because what happens is you're on stage in front of thousands of people and then it's time to come home and take out the trash. And so, you can get seduced into thinking, oh, I don't need to take out the trash. But it's like, yes you do. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Yes you do. 

Myron Butler: 

Yes you do. And come wash these dishes. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And your children need to see you do that. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. It was the struggle of that. It was the you get it right sometimes and you don't get it right some other times. But also, I think the struggle in that that I'm sharing is the constant checking of your heart and the position of your heart that it's not like, yes, for my family and for my children, but really, what I'm really desiring is to be celebrated on these stages. For me, it was just the, I won't say battle, but just being responsible in the prioritization of my first ministry. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That's beautiful. And knowing that you really were living that truth. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Because I get a chance… I'm just going to be transparent when I ask you to be a guest of The Table Podcast, you are not officially my boss. 

Myron Butler: 

Right. Right. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

But God. So now I- 

Myron Butler: 

God, he moving chairs around. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Yes, he does. I had no idea. So now I'm at Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship and Media and you are the worship and media director of all of these things. And so, long story short, there are a lot of demands. I'm seeing you run around all over the place doing all sorts of things. So to know that you being a man of God, know that you have to prioritize- 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Being the Grammy Award winner, doing everything you do on that stage. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Being on the stage at a mega church like Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship, but being mostly on the stage at home and making sure that you're not the father that you did not have. 

Myron Butler: 

Didn't have. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Don't want to be, necessarily. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And that sort of thing. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Do you find that there's a struggle to not be who your dad was or you didn't know enough about him to even have to worry? 

Myron Butler: 

Yeah. I think for me, it was always the notion of I've got to be present, I think. And my son and I, because now my son is a student at Dallas Baptist University, and so he and I were talking and he was talking about just my whole faith journey. I was taking him back to his dorm and we were talking about it and he's like, "Dad, you don't talk about it much." And I was like, "It's not intentional," because for me, the contention between what I didn't receive from my father and what I hope to live and walk out as a father, it was like, I'm never going to be like him. And no, he was the worst. And… It wasn't that, it was, but I understood the notion that, or the biblical understanding that the generational curse was not going to continue. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Amen. 

Myron Butler: 

It was not going to continue. It stopped here. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

All right. 

Myron Butler: 

And so at that moment I understood, and that was the position and the perspective that I took as opposed to saying, "I'm not going to be you." It was, this can't happen, this won't continue in my family line. And so, that's where I was putting my stake in the sand as opposed to, I think, because in all of the bitterness that I had that I carried as it related to my biological father, there was at the same place in time right alongside it, was this love for him that I couldn't really articulate, understand, or reconcile in my mind. It was in my heart because I wanted to know. 

There were times I want to see the other side of what I looked like or what did I get from him. But then at the same token, he didn't listen. And so, I think it was God divinely orchestrating it so that there was not this immeasurable amount of contempt and bitterness and even to just be real, to use the word hatred. That the Lord didn't allow me to be there. I think it was me understanding that once again, to say that that mindset, that way of living, that way of living before the Lord could not continue in my family. So my son has to see me praying. He has to see me in my word, he has to see me honoring God in every area as best I can to walk as God has called me to do. That's really what it's about. 

So, those traits continue and not the other, because to be very honest, haven't even taken my family back to Florida where I'm from. They know everything about my wife's side of the family, but mine, they know my mother because she lives here with us. But that's the extent. So for me, the onus on me is to expose them to that so that they can see all of that. So that's really where I am with that. It wasn't, you're never going to be… I never lived my life on the, my daddy was nothing, so you're not going to ever be like that. It wasn't that- 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Right. You didn't have to do that. 

Myron Butler: 

It was really more from a biblical understanding of that the generational curse would not continue. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I would say there again, you're blessed because not everyone has that experience who did not have a father. We the other. You going to be just like that- 

Myron Butler: 

You going to be just like your daddy. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Exactly. 

Myron Butler: 

Right. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I want to ask now, do you feel at times that in what you do, you've come against spiritual warfare? 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Okay. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

You can tell us about that and tell us how it was dealt with. 

Myron Butler: 

Yeah, I think for me, because as a minister, as an artist on the road, any and everything is going to come at you. And that's what I would tell any minister, I think. But the one thing let me say that always stayed in my mind, I don't know why the scripture stayed with me, is that I can't remember the exact verse, but it speaks to that we are not ignorant to the enemy's devices and that the enemy will attack us in our weaknesses and in our weak areas. And in those moments, I can always remember saying, "I see you." I was, "I see you devil." 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Call him. Call it out. 

Myron Butler: 

Call it out. Call it out. And this would literally be oftentimes where we just got off the stage singing or in various award shows or places like that, that you would see the attack of the enemy. And you understood that it wasn't just flesh and blood, but this is spiritual and that this was literally a spiritual attack. It was the enemy's desire and design to do whatever he can to be not only just a hindrance, but to literally thwart you walking in the purpose of God. 

So for me, there were times when I would literally just call it out in front of the person. If you're going to be bold, I'm going to be just as bold. But I had to grow to that point. So it wasn't like I conquered every time, and I was always that, but I grew to that point to where if I understand the purpose that God has placed in me, I understand that the enemy's desire and design is to stop that from happening. So I have got to be self-aware enough in every moment when the enemy shows his face, not to try to stick my head in the sand, not to try to find nice, delicate words and be politically correct. I'm going to call the sand out. And at that point I'm going to say, "Satan, the Lord rebuke you." And so for me, it was just that matter of fact. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

When you were saying that in the beginning, I was thinking to myself, yeah, that's David, because that's how he supposed to the giant. "You uncircumcised." 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Who do you think you are coming against me and my God? 

Myron Butler: 

I'm going to say it to your face. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

In your face. 

Myron Butler: 

Not behind your back. I'm not going to text you. I'm not going to email you. I'm going to say it to you. And I think it's that level of boldness. Because I think just as my personal character, I'm pretty bold and pretty in any scenario, I'm just going to say what needs to be said, but just I'm thankful that that's just not a personal trait that I have, but it's also a spiritual trait that I have and the spiritual boldness to like, no, I am not going to allow this to happen. No, I'm not going to allow the enemy to just accomplish everything he wants to accomplish against my life. You're not going to have it. No. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

How much have you seen that even in your… You talk about in the secular circles, but how much of that have you seen in maybe the Christian circles? So in the church, not our church. 

Myron Butler: 

I've seen a lot of it because a lot of people, what they, I think would assume to believe is that inside of the church, inside of Christian or gospel music, that those things don't happen. They do. They do. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

We hear you. 

Myron Butler: 

They do. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

They do. 

Myron Butler: 

They do. They do happen. And I think the call and the requirement is the same. It is the same. And because I want people to understand that the enemy don't care about how gifted you are. He doesn't care about all the things that you accomplished. He wants to take us out. Whether you stand and sing gospel or whether you stand in sing secular, whether you're on an award show, a TV show, it doesn't matter. And so, I think what has to happen is it has to go past an understanding, and the actions have got to change inside of our gospel settings, inside of our church settings, that it can't just be in theory or in word, "Satan, the Lord rebuke you," but no, in action, "Satan, the Lord rebuke you." 

Because I have seen it happen, not just once. I've seen it happen many times in my life and walk, in the church world and gospel music. And also, I have to say that a lot of it is incumbent on the individual. And what I say when I mean that is you can't just assume the victim role. No. You've got to say, "No, this is not right. No, this will not happen. Satan, I will not allow you to take this. I will not allow you to exact your plans. No, I won't." And I think that's really the thing that we would always hope to happen, but it doesn't always happen. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Right. And when you're on stage like that and you've got thousands of people, probably hundreds of thousands for you, who are cheering and all that kind of thing, it's very easy to put yourself on a pedestal. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

It's very easy to think you can have what you want, when you want, how you want. And so, there's temptation. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And so if you don't have a mindset of what you're describing to us, then you can be sucked in real, you can be reeled in really quick. 

Myron Butler: 

Really quick. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Into that world. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And so I can only imagine what all you've had to say no to or stay away from and steer yourself away and that kind of thing. Just changing gears here, thinking about praise and worship overall. I know that it's a moment of church and service and even at home in your car, wherever you listen to gospel music and you're being encouraged and that kind of thing, I think the thing to keep in mind is just how important it really is- 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

To be in praise and worship. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Can we talk about that a little bit? 

Myron Butler: 

Yeah. Because I think it can't be, and this goes back to that whole performative measure. It can't just be a switch that you flip on when you hit the platform or when you hit the stage. It must be a daily lifestyle. And that when you are asked to be on any stage or any platform, that what happens there is the outpour of what's happening privately. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Yes. Oh, I love that. 

Myron Butler: 

It can't once again, just be something that, okay, I've got to execute. I've got to do this and this and this and this. Okay, let me check all these things off. No. At that point, it is, I am getting the opportunity to demonstrate or display or share what I do privately. And the thing is, if there is nothing, if there is no connection privately, if there's no private praise and worship, then when you stand publicly, it really is just a performance. 

And so, it was me understanding that early on. And I think that fundamental understanding for me was couched in the understanding of, I have a relationship with God. And it's not just something that I talk about. It's not just something that I just do on Sunday. It's not just something that I just do when cameras or lights are on. I've got a relationship with God, and the measure of that relationship is directly tied to the amount of investment that I put into it. I often tell people when we talk about the word worship, that from my study, it's based in the old English of two words together, worth and ship. How much is God worth to you? 

Milyce Pipkin: 

All right. 

Myron Butler: 

And I don't just display that with a song. I display that with my life. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

With your heart for real. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And I love that because just working at Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship and getting an opportunity to do the online stream and pray for people, one of the things that I tell myself is, this is a life that has to be lived because you are praying for other people. This is a life. And even here at DTS, when I was going through and getting my master's degree in Christian education, I knew and I learned and put it in practice, that you cannot teach anyone anything about the word of God if you are not living it. And I've heard some of the most eloquent prayers prayed by people who were in seminary. I've heard some of the most eloquent prayers prayed by people. And I know these people, and I'm saying to myself, you are not living the life of the words that are coming out of your mouth and then I had to pray for them because you're performing and you're putting on an air that is not going to be pleasing and acceptable to God. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And that opens the doors for spiritual warfare. 

Myron Butler: 

There you go. Yes. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

So, I think when you're doing what you just said, you're keeping those doors and those windows closed even by the life that you're living when you're not on stage. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Because you're living the word. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. And for me, I had to at an early age, man, it might've been probably when I was in college, because what sometimes happens is you think, or it can be deduced or you can assume that because you're always in church, that you've got a relationship. And because once again, nine, 10 years old, I'm playing piano. So I'm playing the piano, I'm directing the choir, I'm singing. I'm always in church, hearing the word, playing and singing the word. But it was like, when's the last time I talked to God? 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That part. 

Myron Butler: 

So it's not just because I'm in the building or I'm doing the religious routine, but it is actually, what am I communicating? What's my voice communicating? What is my heart communicating? Time in the word? In prayer? That's me investing in my relationship with God. And so I had to step back because there were times in my life where I felt like just because I was doing Christian and church service, that that equated to relationship. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But you're right. If there is no relationship there, then it really is just an eloquent performance. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Yes. Pastor Tony Evans, when he was senior pastor of our church… I'll turn that off. Used to say along the lines of Christianese, when you're speaking the word, the Christianese and you're praising and you're doing all this stuff, acting as though the Holy Spirit's just gotten to you and you're just all emotionally charged. That is just a performance like you're saying. But when you're really living this stuff, it's almost like gospel music takes on a totally different impact in your life. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

When you hear those words, not only do you hear scripture in some of the words, but I can almost, I don't know what it is, Myron, I don't want to be judgmental, but sometimes, I can tell when a performer is performing in gospel music and I can tell when a person is really truly just singing. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

You know what I mean? I can feel it sometimes. 

Myron Butler: 

You know why I said, because I believe spirit touches spirit. It's like when you… Have you ever talked to somebody and it's like, are you telling the truth? Because it's like something about this don't… It's not settling. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Discernment. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. It is always there. And I think to your point, it is incumbent upon us in those moments. If there is a relationship, because this is something that was a part of our church world when I was coming up as a child. Whenever the elder people in the church saw us veering off the way, they would come to us, and they wouldn't say it in derogatory language, but it was very matter of fact. They would literally say, if we were not walking in a way that was commensurate with God's word, they had no problem letting us know. And I think sometimes, it begins to feel like we live in a, we always want things to be warm and fuzzy culture. And I think there are oftentimes when we see that, when God allows us to see that, if there's relationship and opportunity there for us to speak to it, I think the responsibility is for us to speak to it. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Yes. Amen. So we've talked about some of your challenges and we've actually talked about some of your successes being a Grammy Award winner. We're talking to Myron Butler who is a Grammy Award winner, and our subject today is a Grammy for God. So keeping that in mind, what would you say, I know that's probably one of your greatest accomplishments, but it's probably not the greatest necessarily. We're talked about some of your strengths, and we talked about some of your weaknesses, but I really want to talk about maybe what do you think would be your strength? What is your greatest accomplishment? What is the thing that most people will probably say their children, having had their children born. That's the politically correct thing. And if that's it, that's the answer, that's fine too. But what would you say that has been? 

Myron Butler: 

I think I would say that my greatest gift and/or accomplishment is my family. It's my wife and children. I think one of the other greatest gifts that God has me is, and I want to say this in a way that doesn't get spooky. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Come on with it. 

Myron Butler: 

But one thing, I know the voice of the Lord. And when you know the voice of the Lord, you can be very honest with yourself and with others when there are times where you're like, you know what? I missed it. Or I didn't do what I know I should have done, kind of thing. But it is to know his voice as it relates to what I am called to do. I think that would be… People talk about their giftedness and all those types of things, and that's cool. But I think for me, one thing that I am sure of is that I know how to hear the voice of God as it relates to what Myron is supposed to do and what Myron is called to do and say in whatever moment God allows me to speak into. And I think that for me is… And the safety in that for me is the reliance on nothing- 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Of Myron. 

Myron Butler: 

Of Myron. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

You're right. 

Myron Butler: 

But it is- 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That is a gift. That's another gift. 

Myron Butler: 

Right. It's like, no, because I've seen times when, okay, if I'm going to do this in my… Well, I've tried to do it in Myron's strength just in my humanism. I'm not going to always get it right. I'm not going to always be perfect. And I've seen Myron fail. It's like, you know you flunked because he was trying to do that on your own. 

But for me, it is knowing, okay, in this moment, God has for me to say this and I'm not going to add to it. I'm not going to take anything away. I'm going to say what God has for me to say. And in that moment, also the times when God doesn't have anything for me to speak into this. So it is the reliance on God because in and of myself, I know I can't do it. I don't have it. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I really think that's a gift of obedience when you're obedient that God just gifts you with that because you're talking about a lot of things. You're talking about yeah, spirit of discernment for the Lord, but you're also talking about wisdom. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Knowledge and fear of the Lord in a proper way. Not everybody has it. Even I myself sometimes say, "Lord, I stumbled on that. What's a better way to do this?" Or, "Lord, what is the better way to do this?" But I find myself trying to yield to the Holy Spirit so that submission begets- 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Obedience begets what you're talking about. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

So I totally understand. That to me, is almost a gift in and of itself. 

Myron Butler: 

And for me, what it has given me is an immense sense of peace. Oftentimes, when I'm called to go minister, called to go sing, be it sing or whatever. In that moment, number one, I'm going to give everything I have and know to give. But in that moment, what I am able to trust and know is in that moment, I said what God had for me to say, and that's it. I don't have anything else to give. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That is peace. 

Myron Butler: 

I can't add nothing to it. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That's it. 

Myron Butler: 

I did what God had for me to do in that moment. I pray it blessed you. I'm not going to tell you how great or bad it was. I only was- 

Milyce Pipkin: 

You're going to have to take that up with him. Because I did what- 

Myron Butler: 

I did what I was called to do. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Called to do. That's it. What would you say to aspiring musicians, songwriters, singers in the gospel world? 

Myron Butler: 

Oh, man. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Your advice. How would you? 

Myron Butler: 

Yeah. The thing that I see is we live in such an aesthetic… Everything is quick, performative time and world and day. I would say, take number one, just from a practical standpoint, take time to shut the phone off, to shut the computer off and just spend time with God. Because often, what I see is I see a lot of, it's artists, musicians, songwriters, producers, they're always looking to see what's the latest fab, what's the latest thing people are doing so that they can try to be relevant. And for me, relevance goes and comes as it relates to what's the hot new thing. But if you are doing and if you know what God has for you to do specifically at that point, there is always a space for that. The other thing would be as it relates to this quick, everything is quick. Everything is immediate. Everything is right now, right now, right now. But there are oftentimes, when God will have us in a season of either preparation or waiting. God can do it suddenly and immediately. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Yes, he can. 

Myron Butler: 

But he doesn't always. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Amen. 

Myron Butler: 

And in those seasons of waiting, I always encourage with the scripture to be not weary in well-doing for in due season, you will reap, but it's conditional. The condition is that you faint not. And so I would encourage them, yes, you may see other people progressing faster and at a faster rate than you, and you may feel like you thought you would be further along by now, or you want greater impact, or you feel like you're still at the infancy stage and that you haven't really actualized or realized what you thought or what you believe God has for you to do. Don't get weary, don't faint. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Good. How have you seen gospel music evolve? And maybe there is even a follow-up question to that, but right now, I personally have seen it evolve. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And I know you as a professional doing this, have seen it. But from your standpoint, how has it done that? 

Myron Butler: 

Yeah, I think it has evolved in the spaces that we see gospel music in. So when I started 20 years ago, it wasn't the norm to see gospel on this television show or in this setting or even the opportunities that were afforded to gospel artists. So I think there has been an expansion in the areas that gospel music can, I don't want to say infiltrate, but be accepted in. 

And so I think there's also been an expansion and an evolution in what gospel music looks like, because whether we go all the way back to the days of James Cleveland and Clara Ward and Thomas Dorsey, there was a way it looked. And today, that's totally different. I think just what gospel speaks into. And I think being able to speak into culture, I think a lot of times in days of old, gospel may have been thought to be just contained to the four walls of the church, unless you're like the Edmund Hawkins Oh Happy Day, or you're just those one-offs. But more and more we're seeing gospel in different areas and speak to different parts of culture that necessarily didn't as much as I'm seeing it today. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Now, we've seeing gospel, like you said, back in the day, and then it come forward, evolved now to where we're starting to see more of the gospel music making the shift and the turn trying to get into rhythm and blues and that kind of thing. But it's so interesting because a lot of them started out that way. 

Myron Butler: 

Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And they doing full circles, so maybe God is able to, well, God can use it, but maybe that's what's happening. I don't know. 

Myron Butler: 

Yeah. I think whether you talk about that full circle artist like Aretha Franklin who started in the church and then went and did secular. And so, I think in that, God is able to utilize whomever. And I think with that, the thing that brings me peace and resolve is that the message of the Lord, the message of Jesus Christ will always go forth in some way or another. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Amen. 

Myron Butler: 

It's like nothing is going to stop it. A tradition or people not being a preference of others, but the message of God will always go through and go out and going out through the medium of gospel music. I think it will continue to evolve whether it's New Age this or the new generation is doing it this way now. Because that's one thing that I was a part of when we were with God's Property. We were a part of that paradigm shift. See, they on stage dancing, and that's gospel? Like yes, it's still the message of Jesus Christ. So, I think gospel music will continue to evolve. It will continue to go into areas that it typically hasn't been in because I think that's just the message going into all the earth. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Amen. Do you have any closing comments for us here? 

Myron Butler: 

No. I just want to thank you for allowing me to come and share with your audience here on the table. I'm glad we- 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Absolutely. 

Myron Butler: 

Got a chance to just talk through it, and I'm thankful to be able to share part of my testimony and story and my prayer is that something is said that would be a help to someone listening. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That's awesome-sawsome. I could ask you to leave a word of wisdom to someone who's aspiring to be a Grammy Award winner, that kind of thing. But you've already done that. But if you could leave them with a closing word, I can't think of anything other than you continuing to say, pray, trust God, wait. 

Myron Butler: 

Yeah. Absolutely. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And then… 

Myron Butler: 

And I would honestly, and I know in a context like this, you think that it's the natural assumption, but do it for God. Do it for him. Don't do it for any accolade. Don't do it for any temporary residual. Do it for him and he'll breathe on it. He'll bless it however he chooses. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Amen. We going to end all that note. I wanted you to sing a bar. Leave us with something, Myron. 

Myron Butler: 

Okay. What can I sing? You want me to sing something old or something new? 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Wherever you want, the Spirit leaves you. 

Myron Butler: 

I love the hymns of the church, and there's a hymn that was saying… 

Draw me nearer. 

Nearer blessed Lord. 

To the cross where thou hast died. 

Draw me nearer. 

Nearer blessed Lord. 

To thy precious bleeding side. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Amen. Thank you so much, my brother. 

Myron Butler: 

Yes, ma'am. Thank you much Milyce. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

We wish you continued successes. Continue to pray for you and your family as well. 

Myron Butler: 

Thank you. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And that is all the time we have here on The Table Podcast where we discuss issues of God and culture. Thank you so much for being here. We get to show the reverence and the relevance of God and culture when we do this, The Table Podcast. And we can't do it without you. If you like it, like it, and if you would like to, please subscribe to us. Until the next time, God bless you and keep you.