Getting to Know Jonathan Edwards: An Interview with Dr. Joseph Lee

What was your pathway to Dallas Theological Seminary?

My parents took my sister and me to church off and on when we were growing up, but there would be stretches where we wouldn’t go. So I really didn’t understand the gospel until I got to college. At age twenty-one, I was discipled by my college pastor, who took me through The Pursuit of Holiness, the great classic by Jerry Bridges. As I believed and grew, I wanted to extend that impact to other people. When I finished college, I started doing youth services in the local public school system. Then I enrolled in the San Jose branch campus of Western Seminary.

I had really only been a Christian for several years, and so the first year of seminary was very challenging! A lot of the concepts and terminology were assumed, and that just wasn’t the case for me. That first year was really hard, and then the second year was a bit easier. While I was in school, I continued in youth ministry, leading a Bible study, and serving in other ways. Later, I thought of church planting, but I realized that my love was teaching and mentoring, not the administrative responsibilities of starting a church.

At Western Seminary, we joked that we were really getting a Dallas Theological Seminary degree since many of our professors had studied at DTS. Of course they had expertise in their field, but what most impressed me was that they were really humble. They were servants who stayed after class to answer questions for you and support you. They modeled a wonderfully pastoral ministry in their teaching and mentoring. So I knew that if I was going to get an advanced degree at a seminary, I wanted to go to Dallas—and I did. At DTS, I completed my ThM and PhD, and then in 2022, I joined the faculty.

How do you advise your students at DTS, some of whom may be headed toward pastoral ministry?

I feel compelled to tell my students that we’re all servants. We’re in this because we serve an amazing God who has given us the privilege to serve in ministry. Whatever ministry role you have, think about who people need you to be—a redemptive, life-giving presence. Don’t worry about being famous, but prayerfully consider where you are and keep striving to love the Lord and serve people.

You’re one of at least three DTS professors who list Jonathan Edwards as a particular focus of interest and research. What are some reasons Edwards merits so much attention from evangelical theologians, and how did you first become interested in Edwards?

In high school English or history classes, a lot of people first encounter Edwards by reading his sermon “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” It’s become kind of a caricature. But he actually preached more about the love of God and grace, and a lot of the theology that many evangelicals embrace—especially in areas such as hamartiology (the doctrine of sin) and soteriology (the doctrine of salvation)—can be traced back to Edwards. It’s helpful to go back to a key source (Edwards) to understand how our theology has been shaped. He had a creative, Reformed understanding of the doctrine of original sin—that humans were born sinless, but then the Fall happens in Genesis 3, and nothing afterward was the same. According to Edwards, the Fall removed the supernatural principles humans were born with, leaving the natural principles reigning without accountability. In his book The Great Christian Doctrine of Original Sin Defended, Edwards says the natural principles are like a fire—useful when kept in its place, but dangerous once it becomes uncontained. So divine grace is necessary for someone to be saved. Nothing within a person now will move the person toward God without God working in that person.

My first academic encounter with Edwards came through Dr. Glenn Kreider, another of the seminary’s professors who focuses on Jonathan Edwards studies. When I was working on my ThM, Glenn recommended that I read Edwards’s Freedom of the Will—which is an extremely dense text, not easy to read! It probably takes several read-throughs to really get a handle on his argumentation and his philosophical treatment of human agency.

Jonathan Edwards is called “America’s greatest theologian,” and though that’s somewhat hyperbolic, he certainly was a brilliant theologian and philosopher, as I saw when I read Freedom of the Will. But first and foremost, he was a pastor. As I continued to read Edwards, what he ended up doing for me was showing me an amazing, grand vision of God. From a young age, Edwards was always focused Godward. The way he talks about God was something I’d never encountered before. It pushed me to consider a greater vision of who God is. And because Edwards was so passionate and in love with the Lord, reading Edwards always pushes me to love God more.

Tell us about the scholarly research you’ve done on Edwards. What are you adding to our understanding of him?

Jonathan Edwards didn’t have a perfect past. In particular, he never took a stand against institutionalized slavery. So, as I began my dissertation research, that was the question I asked: How can someone with such a robust moral theology hold a position of condoning slavery? And I ended up coming across some material by a student of Edwards’s, Samuel Hopkins. What I discovered is that Hopkins applied Edwards’s theology as a foundation for a doctrine of benevolence for abolitionism. Hopkins maintained the integrity of his mentor’s moral theology and used it in a way that his mentor didn’t in this one area. It’s a fascinating study, to examine how Edwards’s theology can reasonably support a social position that Edwards himself didn’t speak out for.

And this is the topic of the book you’ll publish soon?

That’s right, it’s a revised version of my dissertation, which is on the topic of Hopkins’s use of Edwards’s theology. The primary audience for the book will be people with some experience with Edwards, and seminary students who have a background in his theological concepts. Overall, the book gives a helpful understanding of how, even though Edwards held a pro-slavery position, his student, Hopkins, came to an abolitionist position, all within the continuity of the same moral theological foundation. In my teaching, I talk about this topic a little bit in Angelology, Anthropology, and Hamartiology (ST5103) and in Soteriology (ST5104).

Dr. Lee’s recommendations for getting started with Jonathan Edwards:

• Biography: Jonathan Edwards: A Life, by George M. Marsden (Yale University Press, 2003)
• Sermon: “Charity and Its Fruits” (1738)
• Selected writings: A Jonathan Edwards Reader, edited by John E. Smith, Harry S. Stout, and Kenneth P. Minkema (Yale University Press, 2003)